Krmiči holubů, nebo šedí panteři?

Naše videa

Za císaře pána

Ako sa varia halušky

Co vidím z okna ložnice

Dolina


Chvilka poezie

  • česky

Troy Found Anew?

Home » Troy Found Anew?

The future is certain, it is the past that changes constantly. Jan Werich

There is a theory by an unknown Czech amateur scientist Jaroslav Sedláček who places Trojan war, Ulysses’ journey, story of Argonauts and several other places and events to Romania. In other words, some key stories of ancient history the whole civilized world knows from their textbooks took place in that country.

If you go to Google Earth and find 45º55.55 N and 21º14.14 E, there is a possibility that what you see is ancient city of Ilion or Troy. You will discover in the following text that it is well possible.


Part 1 – Forgotten Sea

Excavations in modern Hungary, Slovakia, South Moravia, Romania and Serbia reveal an interesting fact: iron-age hunters did not leave any traces in the lowlands. They always lived on hillocks and, in each period of history, at exactly the same elevation. The older excavations are higher than the newer ones, everywhere. It is as if the mammoth hunters had a giant spirit level. And, in fact, they did – they lived on the coastline of a gigantic freshwater sea – now known as the Pannon Sea. Among other things, they lived by fishing – even in places where there are no signs of fish today. This sea gradually dried up until, at the break of the era, it disappeared for good. The Danube eroded its rocky banks and the effect was as if a gigantic bath plug had been pulled out. The entire Pannonian lowland dried up – in places changed almost to a desert. This is how the Hungarian flatland, known as the ‘puszta’, came into existence. All that remains of this gigantic okéan, as the Greeks called it, is today’s Lake Balaton. Historically, this sea covered half of Hungary and part of Romania. After a few centuries nobody knew where the sea that had previously been known as “the North Sea”, “the Atlantic Ocean” and as “Pontos Euxeinus” was. Historians’ conception started being based on the belief that the map of Europe has been the same as far back as mankind can remember.


Part 2 – Darius in the Balkans

Let us start with a story, which is important only for its exact description of the world five centuries before Christ – when this sea was almost dried up. It concerns Herodotus’s description of the expedition of the Persian king Darius against the Scythians. As historians now tell us, when Darius wanted to wage war on the Scythians, he gathered an army, in Persia, of seven hundred thousand soldiers on horse and foot and set out for the Ukraine. He crossed the Bosporus on a floating bridge, built by the Greeks from Asia Minor, and turned north. He sent builders ahead by sea to build for him another floating bridge over the Danube. After he crossed it, he ordered his men to guard the bridge for sixty days, awaiting his return. He gave them a belt with sixty knots. Each day one knot was untied. Then he turned east with the army to the river Tanais, or what is now known as the river Don. After crossing the Don, into the land of the Sauromats, he travelled north to the land of Budas. There, he burned down their wooden town. From there he traveled east across the river Volga to the land of the Thyssagets and then to the Ural mountains. Throughout the entire journey, the Scythians avoided the fight. They demolished wells and drove away their cattle until they wore out the Persians. Darius turned back and traveled west to the areas inhabited by the Melanchlains, the Androfags and the Neurus peoples, through Scythia to the bridge over the Danube….This is what history would have us believe. Yet it is difficult to imagine infantry marching through a barren land, constantly battling natives, fully occupied in constructing fortifications and razing towns, yet covering a distance of about two thousand miles in 68 days. Moreover, it is even more difficult to imagine how they negotiated rivers over a mile wide without a bridge, without boats, and without wood to build them. Furthermore, in the description, there are many rivers that we cannot find on the map, try as we might. Other rivers flow in the opposite direction. Our author believes Herodotus had accurate information and that, indeed, many of the local names and the river names have been preserved in some form to this day. Darius crossed the Danube at Turnu Severin. He turned north, crossed the river Tanais – that is the river Tisza, a brook, compared to the river Don, at the land of Budas – near Budapest. He burned down the wooden town, then turned east to the land of the Thyssagets, the inhabitants of the Tisza region and then to Neurus. Even now the cities have the same names: Nyíregyháza, Nyírbátor, Nyírszölös etc. The rivers that he crossed correspond in number, direction of flow and even name with rivers that still exist today. (The river Gerros is today’s Körös, Borysthenés is Berettyó, Oaros is Arieš, etc.) Arriving back at Turnu Severin his route is clear. Everything corresponds; distances, number of days’ marching, directions, mountains, lowlands, local names. It seems that Sedláček elaborated Darius´s itinerary precisely. Why? Mainly, because he wanted to identify exactly the places where individual peoples in the Balkans and Pannonia used to live. This information will be useful later on in the series…..


Part 3 – Argonauts

The ancient Greeks, the founders of European culture, glossed over their pillaging and plundering with tales of heroism and adventure. One of these myths is the story of Jason’s journey on the Argo to mythical Colchis, for the Golden Fleece.

What is the Golden Fleece? Hardly a remnant of a golden ram, as the myth says. There could be two explanations: sheepskin used to separate out gold particles from sand, etc. in a washing process or veins of natural gold. Both indicate that Colchis must have been rich in gold. Jason did not succeed in buying it or obtaining it for tasks he performed in the service of King Aietus – killing dragons, giants etc. He simply stole it and took the king’s daughter Medea with him as a lover or a hostage. Historical science places Colchis in the foothills of the Caucasus. But there are no deposits of gold in that area. On the other side of the Caucasus, however, in Romania, gold has been present until recent times. Sedláček explains the word ‘Colchis’ as ‘a mountainous land’ and ‘Colchidians’ as, simply, ‘highlanders’. This is feasible, as in Romania gold is mined in the mountains.
According to another myth, the kidnapping of Medea, along with three other women, was allegedly the cause of the Trojan War. Diodor wrote that Medea took Jason to the place where the Taurus were guarding the Golden Fleece and spoke to them in their language. However, the Taurus did not live in the Caucasus, but in Scythia. And Scythians, as we mentioned in the previous chapter, lived in Hungary and Romania. Colchis, then, was located on the east coast of the Carpathian Sea (Pannon Sea).
After the theft and the kidnapping, the people of Colchis knew that the Greeks would be looking for the shortest route home. So they cut across the straits around the Peuke island (today’s mount Zagajičko Brdo – for simplicity I present only conclusions, not the whole process; we will use a map of the Carpathian Sea and raise the water level about 90 meters above the sea level, as it corresponds to the time of the story) and seized the estuary of the river Ister – Danube. Which made the return of the Greeks impossible. The Argonauts, with absolutely no way out, turned back and fled by sea to the north. In the end they sailed into the river Rhodan. Which river is that? The correct pronunciation of “rh” is “hr” in Ancient Greek. Therefore the river’s name was Hrodan. And after a longer search, we discover that the current name of the river is Hornád. The Argonauts, according to the myth, paddled against the flow as far as its spring – in east Slovakia. There they got the boat over the water divide and by another river they reached the Baltic. Travelling along the European coast, according to the myth, along the land of the Celts they finally got back to Greece. It is reported that they brought amber with them – and that is to be found in the Baltic.


Part 4 – Ovid in Exile

Publius Ovid Naso, the Roman lyrical poet, left for exile in the 8 A.D. The rest of his life he lived unhappily in the village of Tomis on the shore of the Pontos Sea. This name has been settled on – historical science identified Pontos as the Black Sea and Tomis as Romanian Constanca. Ovid even has a monument there. However, he was never there.

The exact and reliable sources of information are his poems and letters to his friends. He writes, for example that he is among Scythians and Gets. He often complains about the sea freezing over every winter and people walking or riding on the frozen surface. The Black Sea is known to have been frozen solid only twice. So it cannot be Pontos. “It is similar to the bog or marsh, this lazy sea.” For sure we know from the graph, how the water level of the Carpathian Sea decreased. At the break of the era the sea was almost dried up. The sea in Constanca is neither dried up nor “lazy” nor muddy. Ovid writes, that he lives in such a place where the estuary of the Hister – that is the Danube – is located. The Danube does not flow into the sea in Constanca. Ovid writes that the sea is sweet, freshwater. He describes his journey to Pont as crossing the “Haimos covered with clouds”. Haimos is the Bulgarian mountain range of Stara planina. But on the way to Constanca these mountains are small hills. On the way to the midlands, however, there are mountains over 2000 meters. And so on and so on. Herodotus writes that in the Scythian land it freezes for 8 months of the year and the sea freezes, as well as the whole Kimmer Bosporus. Kimmer Bosporus is the estuary of the Danube.

“From the Kimmers town it is 2500 steps across the straits. This width thus divides Europe from Asia and was measured by walking on the frozen straits.” Yes, the left side of Danube was considered to be Asia. Let us recollect Darius, who controlled Asia and that’s why he set out for a war against the Scythians, to control it all.

If Ovid writes that he is “washed ashore on the bank of the Styg”, the search is simple. Even on today’s maps there is a valley, through which flows the last tributary of the Danube before Kimmer Bosporus, and this valley is named Stig. Here the “Black Sea” or also Hades, the underworld, was located. So it appears that the town of Tomis, where Ovid spent the rest of his life, is located on the other bank, opposite the town of Stara Palanka. There are ruins of the Serbian castle “Ram” and next to it there are the remains of Roman fortifications. Probably this is the place where the sculpture from Constanca belongs.


Part 5 – Troy – Discovered for the Second Time

Finding Troy has been the historian’s greatest challenge. What the German businessman Schliemann excavated is presented in textbooks as Troy. But it cannot be Troy for several reasons. The cause of the Trojan War was allegedly the kidnapping of a few women. It is hard to believe that in the times, where kidnapping of women was a common thing, men from all over Greece would go on such a bloody adventure for this reason. The real reason undoubtedly was the fact that Jason found out that the area surrounding Troy is very rich in gold and the Greeks set out to seize this gold. What are the golden fields like in Asia Minor? There are none.

The second reason was that the so called “sea peoples” increasingly threatened the territory controlled by the Greeks. So the Greeks set out to settle the score with them. The list of peoples that fought on the side of Troy is practically the same as the list of sea peoples. If we locate these peoples on a map, using information from different sources, such as the expedition of Darius against the Scythians, we find that they are almost without exception the peoples that lived in the territory of Bulgaria, Romania and Yugoslavia, but not Turkey. If we can believe the ancient historians, the City of Troy simply was not in Turkey. Schliemann probably excavated a town, which the sea peoples once or even twice devastated on their raids, which were the cause and then the result of the Trojan War.

According to Homer, Troy has two names: Troy and Ilion. So either it was one town with two concurrently used names, which does not make much sense, or there were two different towns close to each other. In central Romania, in the river basin of the river Mures, which used to flow into the Carpathian Sea, two towns named Ilia and Troas lie at a distance of 40 km from each other. The closest gold field is again 40 km from the town of Ilia. It looks as if we have hit the bull’s eye.

Troy was a “steep nest”. Troas lies in steeply rising hills. A mountain stream or a brook should flow nearby. This also corresponds. But in a different place, Homer describes the scenery as flat. Ilia is situated on flat land. And of course we have another ten items proving our case, which are mainly based on sailing on the Carpathian Sea, names of peoples, places – etc. All these support our hypothesis. … (The place I suggest to look at in the foreword is another possibility, even a much more suitable one, because at the time of the story it was only about 15km from the seashore…)


Part 6 – The Inglorious Return

During the war itself, disputes among the Greek leaders, most commonly between Ulysses and Achilles, used to appear more and more frequently. After the conquest of both towns the conflicts grew sharper and led to the total disintegration of the united army and probably individual groups were prowling the area. Ulysses, as the most greedy of them, changed his mind on his way back and returned to pillage further on the shore of Pont. This turned out to be his fatal mistake. Step by step he lost his boats and even his loot. We all remember from school the nonsense of how Ulysses´s return used to be explained. The hero sails to Turkey, then to the Ukraine, to Sicily, to North Africa, to Byzantium, then to Italy; the more venturesome authors sent him even to the Azores. Nobody would sail from Turkey to Greece in this way.

However, if we consider Troy being in western Romania and the return by boat having to be made across the Carpathian Sea and then through the Danube to the Black Sea, Ulysses´s return makes sense. Let us have a look what it probably looked like. The guide is the river, which can assure us that all the stories must have happened on the river or in its vicinity. Strabon and others explain that when Homer speaks about a river, he means the sea, with its ebb and flow. But he did indeed mean the river. It is a long story, but our author says, that Ulysses’s boat foundered at Charybdis, which is today’s Iron Gate on the Danube, where there are still gigantic eddies………


Conclusion

Our goal is to illustrate Sedláček’s vision – not to search for an objective truth. Erich von Däniken also became the target of mockery by many scientists and yet it was he who showed us all that historical truth may well stand on legs of clay and that imagination plays an important role. Our story is probably of this kind. If it turns out to be true then so much the better. If not, it does not matter. Troy found by Schliemann is no more real than our Troy – since up to now there has been no real proof that it is Troy that Schliemann found.

This is an image of a huge ancient city discovered about 20 km north of Timisoara, Romania. The place is about 80 km away from the spot where our author places his Troy. Was this Ilion or just a city burned out by Darius?

(Google Earth 45º55.55 N a 21º14.14 E)

Martin

Mail to the author of the article

Komentáře

  1. Vynikající článek. Jen nevím, proč se o historickém moři v jihovýchodní Evropě celkem neví a historici o něm nehovoří – alespoň pokud vím. Jinak kdysi bylo moře i v Čechách a na Moravě … ale to snad jsou prehistorické záležitosti.
    Ale pan Sedláček je dobrý. Připravil mi velmi zajímavou chvilku. Díky.

  2. Vynikající článek. Je mi jasné, že mýty jsou silnější (než)skutečnosti. Rozesmál mě váš pragmatismus “spíš zlato než ženy.” Budu dál šířit tento kvalitní pohled na řecko-persko-skytské tahanice.

  3. kulhanek21

    vážně moooc zajímavé :-) hledal jsem – už ani nevím co – a našel tenhle článek :-) jestli znáte nějaké zajímavé linky (zdroje) na téma “panonské moře” nebo “sedláček”, dejte je sem prosím (případně na můj mail)… historici neznají panonské moře, a internet nezná jaroslava sedláčka… ;-)

  4. Nepodléhejte pocitu, že co není na internetu, nemůže existovat. Autor teorie zemřel před rozšířením internetu a Panonské resp. Karpatské moře internet zná, je to geologický fakt, jen se liší názory na dobu, po kterou existovalo. Pokud vím, Maďaři a Rumuni o tom i leccos napsali… Tím ale nechci tvrdit, že autor teorie má pravdu, nejsem ani geolog, ani historik, ani archeolog… Jako laikovi mi připadá nejpravděpodobnější vysvětlení Dareiovy cesty proti Skytům a pobyt Ovidia…

  5. kulhanek21

    “karpatské” moře jsem nezkoušel (zkusím) ;-) … zkoušel jsem “pannonian see” a “paratethys” – na rozdíl od vás jsem se geologií “chvilku” zabýval ;-) ale stejně bych uvítal (třeba i na privátní mail) linky na zdroje… jsem tak “nízký” ročník, že si SKUTEČNĚ nemyslím, že to, co není na internetu, NEEXISTUJE ;-) obzvláště mě zajímají ty MAPKY, které jste v článku použil (rozsah moře v průběhu vývoje)… je to košér info (???) :-)

  6. Jaképak linky. Pan Sedláček zemřel a jeho děti, pokud vím, pozůstalost vyhodily. Řízením osudu mi zbyla jedna asi stostránková na stroji psaná kopie jedné z jeho prací. To je jediný “link”. V sedmdesátých a osmdesátých letech neměl s jiným než oficiálním výkladem čehokoli šanci a když šance byla, už nebyl naživu. To je celý příběh. Ten spis, co mám, je jen jakési shrnutí jeho celoživotní práce, obsahuje řadu podrobných argumentů, ale měl sloužit k popularizaci, vědecké podklady byly v jiných spisech, které ale nemám a pochybuji, že ještě existují. Nicméně z množství zmiňovaných detailů je jasné, že se nejedná o úplný blábol, ale přinejmenším o teorii postavenou na vědeckou metodou získaných argumentech. Pro mě jako filmaře je v zásadě fuk, zda je to pravda nebo ne, ovšem kdyby to mělo být seriózně ověřeno, musel by někdo asi celý výzkum udělat znovu, protože od Sedláčka se už nic nedozvíme. Mapky jsou v zásadě jeho. Když jsem to psal, zkusil jsem si něco ověřit. Našel jsem si naleziště nějaké balkánské kultury a srovnal ty puntíky s mapou. Vycházelo to, řekněme, zhruba. Tak asi na 80%. To by ale člověk musel začít skutečně pátrat, zjišťovat, jak spolehlivé je určení a datování nalezišť, která podle mapy vycházejí uprostřed moře, atd. Na to nemám, bohužel, čas ani peníze, tak jsem toho nechal. Tenhle článek je tedy jediný můj “výstup”. Hlásili se nějací Slovinci z univerzity v Lublani a taky někdo z Rumunska, že je to zajímá, ale zatím jsem nenašel nikoho, kdo by to jako projekt financoval. Zítra odjíždím do Finska, tak se nezlobte, že si s Vámi nebudu povídat, ale můžeme pokračovat třeba v srpnu. Mezitím se můžete prokousat anglickým překladem “Dacia preistorica”, mám pocit, že ten na internetu je. Já už na to neměl náladu. Rumuni mi tvrdili, že půlka argumentů je tam potvrzena, ale nečetl jsem to, to si nechám na dlouhé zimní večery…

  7. kulhanek21

    tak každopádně díky za zajímavý článek :-) ta “dácie” je skutečně k dispozici v angličtině… to si někdy přečtu :o)

  8. jo super hodi se mi to do skoli

  9. …je to blbosť !! načo by gréci vyslali 1186 lodí, keď mohli ísť do “tróje” peši !!?
    pán Sedláček si prispôosobil miestne názvy k tomu čo potreboval.Stačilo len keď sa trochu podobali k tomu o čom písali dejepisci.Veď to by mohla byť trójou aj trnava,trebišov,trenčín či třebíč alebo ilava,jihlava – iliónom atď…to more tu bolo v geologických dobách a nie v pamäti dejepiscov.Skýti obývali strednú áziu teda juh kaukazu medzi čiernym morom a kaspickým jazerom.peržania by nemuseli z perzie pochodovať 3000 km, keby pán sedláček skýtov neumiestnil niekde v maďarsku.peržanom by stačilo “pouze” ísť na sever, veď perzia priamo susedí z územím skýtov.Myslím si že keby si videl na vlastné oči rieky poprad a hornád tak by si pochopil, že sú nesplavné pre lode typu: Íason a argonauti….a prečo by to isté mesto nemohlo mať dve mená? Veď každý národ nazýva mestá,miesta po svojom.Bratislavu napríklad doteraz nemci volajú pressburg a aj v mapách ju tak píšu /nie všetci/,maďari požoň /pozsóny/ a starší ľudia volajú prešpork-prešporok,veď len pred 80-tími rokmi sa tak aj volala….no mladší ju už väčšinou volajú blava.Preto aj trója mohla byť pre jedných trójou,ilionom či wilusou a to ešte časom aj kadečím iným a skôr či neskôr by sa to viac či menej podobalo nejakému mestu-miestu niekde inde v európe,ázií či v amerike. Potom vznikne hypotéza a hranie sa z miestnymi názvami menené stáročiami až pokiaľ sa niektoré nepodobajú na to čo práve potrebujeme,veď čo na tom že tamto je z novoveku a tamto z praveku.No ako ďaľšia hypotéza sa to dá čítať ale samozrejme že toto je môj názor.Myslím si že pán Sedláček ani nemal toľko možností ako máš Ty dnes a tiež ani toľko neprecestoval-podľa toho čo si písal…v poslednom čase je módou hľadať všetko na balkáne egyptské pyramidy aj tróju už miestni lokalizujú kdesi v srbsku či v bosne,takže sa musím smiať pri takýchto postupoch pretože aj oni ako pán sedláček si spodobujú názvy obcí a miest tak ako potrebujú a potom tým smerom aj nechajú “obrazne povedané” pochodovať rôzne armády staroveku ,tak ako pán sedláček dareia do maďarska.Takže taký je môj názor-bez urážky.

  10. No, ono to možná z toho mého textu není jasné, ale až do Turnu Severinu je cesta Dareiových vojsk přesně doložena a popsána, o tom tedy žádná diskuse být nemůže, to si pan Sedláček nevymyslel. Nejsem historik, ale kdyby Skytové skutečně žili tam, kde se to dnes předpokládá, tak by asi Peršani nevolili takovou příšernou cestu přes Balkán, ne? Už to samo stojí za zamyšlení, jestli na téhle teorii něco není. Ono se sice špatně diskutuje s někým, kdo je dvacet let po smrti, ale narozdíl od měst, která si dobyvatelé často pojmenovávali po svém, řeky a hory měnily názvy málo. Takže když někdo přišel do země a zeptal se, co je to za řeku, řekli mu, že Wilt Ahwa – no a tak jí tak říkal, až se z toho stala Vltava. Osobně si s tou Trójou vůbec nejsem jistý, ale s těmi Dareiovými řekami mi to připadá hodně pravděpodobné.

  11. Je to určitě zajímavé, ale mám problém s tech. údaji. Pokud by hladina sahala až na kótu 280 – 320 m/m, pak by zatopení sahalo až někam po Olomouc, Slovensko by bylo zatopené z 50%. Tomu mapka neodpovídá.Nevím, jaký je názor geologů na protržení Železných vrat (nemýlím-li se tak pozdní třetihory). Autorovi bych doporučil multivědní přístup. Kdyby se hladina “snížila” na reálné hodnoty a více věnovala pozornost říčním cestám (Jáson), pak bych možná uvěřil. Docela bych přivítal odpověď.

  12. Hmm, s odpovědí bude asi momentálně trochu problém. Autor teorie je asi 20 let po smrti. Jako naprostý amatér jsem se pokoušel srovnávat mapku s místy pravěkých nálezů na Balkáně a výsledek byl jenom velmi přibližný, nicméně nevylučující pravdivost teorie.

  13. …ale ani nepotvrdzuje pravdivosť teórie.
    Chápem,že Ťa to do značnej miery ovplyvnilo,no absolútne nesúhlasím.Argumentuješ peržanmi pochodujúcimi kdesi až na území slovenska ?! Pán Sedláček si prispôsobil dejepis aj zemepis ako potreboval. V prahe máte tróju…tak odkiaľ môžeš vedieť že nemyslel práve tú tróju.Rieka by tam bola aj nejaký ten kopec a zlato sa v čechách tiež nájde.Prečo by to tak nemohlo byť? Ak si si pomyslel na more tak na tisíc percent aj na území čiech v niektorej dobe more bolo.Argumentuješ nadmorskými výškami a spomínaš pravekých lovcov? Trójania boli praveký lovci? – zaujímavé,no smiešne. Desať rokov sa úspešne bránil praveký kmeň lovcov proti najvyspelejšej civilizácií tej doby-Grécku.Mali nejaké zvláštne zbrane či čo? predkladáš že je doložený postup peržanov až do Turnu-severínu,lenže ten vznikol až v 2-hom storočí nášho letopočtu tak ako mohol sedláček lokalizovať a pred ním peržania že kde sú?!…aha zabudol som GPS systém mali sebou. More zmizlo v dobe Krista?! ako sa potom rímania dostali na územie slovenska?…a prečo o tom nikde nepísali že preplávali more ? …a kde sú ich trirémy ? A čo má trojská vojna spoločné s dáreiom? …tých skýtov? Ak je to kvôli polohe tróje tak skýti podľa herodota žili od Ústia rieky dunaj po rieku don /na ukrajine/ Ústie rieky dunaj je asi 600 km od turnu-severinu vzdušnou čiarou a herodos o ňom nepísal-nemohol-neexistoval v tom čase ešte !…sedláček úmyselne nazýval rieky ako sa mu do jeho “priblblej” teórie práve hodilo,lebo Dunaj bol pre neho prosto Don !! …poloha sedláčkovej tróje a ilia ? Mal sedláček v rukách niekedy mapu? …ako bez urážky ale nachádzate sa práve v jednom z najväčších pohorí Európy – Karpatoch !! Ako teda mohli grécky vojaci dobehnúť od lodí k hradbám Tróje na jeden raz /homer/ ?! Možno univerzálny vojaci alebo terminátori-nie ľudia! Martin nehnevaj sa ale aj logicky to nie je možné,aby Trója ležala tam kde si pán Sedláček želal.Jeho hlavným argumentom sú dnešné názvy podobné tým o ktorých písali vtedajší velikáni. Rumunské mestečko Ilia ani osada pri ceste Troas nemajú nič spoločmé so starovekou ani dnešnou Trójou. …nenechaj sa vyviesť z miery a vedz že ani naprostý amatér nemusí vždy “spoléhat” na poznatky amatérskych vedcov.

  14. To hector.

    More v dobe rima? Cetl jste stejne clanek? Ze kdy byl Homeruv pribeh? Kdyz s epodivate na mapku kdy to more melo byt a jak vypadalo 500BC. Kdy bylo rimske vojsko na slovensku? Kdyz uz spochybnujete at je to faktama ne blbostma.

    S Dareom? Nu podle clanku, rikaji, ze Darea sel proti Skythum do Asie, kdyz se to nacrtne dle dobovych popisu sel smer slovensko. Tj. v ASII v te dobe bylo i slovensko, bo bylo za dunajem. Takze vykriky do tmy co ma spolecneho? Jde o to, z ednesni nazvy co byla Asie nema nic spolecneho co byla asi kolem roku 0.

    Jsou tedy dana fakta, Sedlacek vysvetluje co pod tim kterym nazvem predstavuje a podpirato dukazi, ala vyprava Darie do ASIE (na slovensko). To jsou fakta, ktera nikdo s vedcu nepopira, ale zamlcuje (nekomentuji, tak nemusi vysvetlovat). atd.

    Jinak receno, to, ze ted se rika Troja byla v anatolii a kdokoliv rika a dokazuje opak je diletant je sama o sobe dukaz, ze neco smrdi.

  15. To hector
    Veta : “Rumunské mestečko Ilia ani osada pri ceste Troas nemajú nič spoločmé so starovekou ani dnešnou Trójou.”

    Otazka pro tebe, ze to rikaji vedci? Do Slimana nikdo neuznaval, ze vubec Troja exitovala, a potom vykopal hodne zlata a najednou exituje? Chlape pravda neni vzdy kdyz to rekne nekdo z doktoratem ci profesurou….

  16. to Karol: …čítal som ten istý článok.doslova sa v ňom píše že:Toto moře postupně vysychalo – až konečně v době Kristově zmizelo skoro úplně…takže spochybňujem faktami,ktoré sa v ňom / článku / nachádzajú. Ale už za homérovho života už tam more nebolo! To more tu bolo v geologických dobách…desaťtisíce rokov predtým ! Kedy boli rímania na slovensku? Je tu plno dôkazov rímskeho pôsobenia aj na Slovensku ako aj v Čechách a na Morave.Celkom určite by svoje sídla nestavali pod vodou a ani nenechali pochodovať légie do mora do bojov proti kvádom,markomanom a iným kmeňom vtedy žijúcich na našich územiach a bez toho že by opísali cestu po mori.V kristových časoch už na tomto územií viedla známa Jantárová cesta-takže more tu už sotva bolo ! Ja som si pozrel mapku ale nijaké more tu v čase 500 BC ani v čase krista byť nemohlo ! Prieči sa to geologickým dôkazom ! More sa na týchto územiach nachádzalo pred miliónmi rokov,ešte v treťohorách! Zatiaľ čo ľudia ešte neexistovali !
    …a k tomu poslednému komentu: Nájdi si prosím obe lokality /ilia a troas/ na mape a posúď sám či v dobách už historicky doložených by tam niekto pristával s loďami – teda 1186 lodí !… ako je opísané v Iliade ! Inak s poslednou Tvojou vetou súhlasím…

  17. to hector
    Tou vědou bych až tak neargumetoval. Homér nebyl součesníkem trojské války. Jason ani trojští hrdinové nebyli Řekové, ale Achájvé! Rozdím mezi Římany na Slovensku a trjskou válkou je minimálně 1500 let. První invaze “mořských národů” do Egypta se odála kolem roku 2200 před n.l. Kdy došlo k protržení a následnému PROHLUBENÍ železných vrt skutečně mevím a ani o tom nechci polemizova. Jen mi vadí, když si někdo plete “Acháje holení krásných” (Homér) s barbarskými Dóry a Ióny.

  18. Náhodou ta teorie je kouzelná a vůbec není hloupá. Argumentace počtem lodí udávaných Homérem mi přijde mnohem scestnější, nic ve zlém. Argonauti plující proti Hornádu, to už je docela divoká představa, ale na druhou stranu, ona ta Argo asi nebyla velká jako Titanic, dokonce nejspíš ani jako parník Tyrš – mluvíme zhruba o polovině 2. tis. AC, ne? Vikingové se plavili po ne zrovna velkých řekách ještě koncem prvního tis. AD, tak co? Nejpádnější argument proti je asi datace protržení Železných vrat – neví o tom někdo víc? Ale osobně si umím představit (mám dobrou fantazii;-), že to nebyl jednorázový proces – skály se propadly na dnešní úroveň a moře se rázem vylilo do Dunaje. Klidně to mohlo trvat celá tisíciletí, během nichž se moře postupně vyprazdňovalo. Různé zdroje datují jeho zánik od 600 000 až po 20 000 před. I tak je to pořád obrovský rozdíl, ale kdo ví…? Každopádně pokud se v té věci něco děje, hodně mě to zajímá.

  19. Přemyslovec

    nejsi normální Troja byla v dnešním Turecku

  20. Přemyslovec

    Illion je název pro Troju z Homérova díla

  21. 2 Premyslovec.

    Krome vykriku co pouziva clovek co vychodil Plzensky typ skol. Ci pred 89 retorika svazaku. Mas neco co by to spochybnilo? Nebo ve skola nam to rekli, tka je to prava a nic nez pravda…

    Proc lidi co nechcou videt i jine pohledy na historii vubec ctou a vyjadrujou se? Proszte si zajdi do hospody a nelez do knihovny nebo na internet.

  22. P.S. nu v homerove dile je to nazev pro troju, a obast v Rumunsku co existuje narozdil od teorie panu akademiku co tvrdi, ze to musi byt tady protoze to rikame…

  23. in hungarian there is a fairy tale Tunder Ilona

    Helene of Troy’s father was Tundareios

    Ilona is a women name

    so yes was here

  24. Tunder means ‘fairy tale women’ or a beautiful women

  25. I am regular reader, how are you everybody? This post
    posted at this web page is genuinely good.

  26. Has your garage door begun to act up and you are worried
    that a mere garage door repair job is not going
    to be enough? Well, the good news is, you do not have
    to completely replace your garage door openers.
    All you have to do is to perform a few garage door repairs that are going to take care of your
    problem.

    You can perform a few repairs without the help of any professional.
    However, some repairs are more complicated and should not be attempted
    by the nonprofessional. If you do so, you might end up injuring yourself.
    Plus, you might also cause more damage to the garage gate than repair!

    Why do you need the repair?

    First, you should note what problems you are facing with your garage gate.
    Is the door simply not responding? Or is it closing
    and opening partially? Do you find that the garage opener is running, but not opening?
    You will find that the repair work for each of
    these cases is different.

    What work does garage gate repair involve?

    Light repair works usually involve cleaning, lubricating and tightening the tracks, springs and the loose parts of the system.
    You should first check if the power supply to the opener is intact.

    Sometimes, if the power is not reaching the opener for some reason, your garage
    door will be stuck, and you will be left wondering what went
    wrong!

    What kind of garage opener do you have?

    When you are planning to perform some garage door repair,
    you should first find out what kind of opener you are using.
    If it is a standard extension garage gate, you
    can easily carry out the repair works, once you are able to find out what is going wrong with the machine.

    However, if your garage door is making use of a torsion spring, you will
    have to call in a professional to help you with the
    repair works. The torsion spring door is under tremendous pressure, and thus,
    one wrong move may even turn out to be fatal for you.

    Other garage door repair works

    If you are looking for a temporary fix for your garage
    gate, you can disconnect the opener from the
    door, by pulling on the red string that you can see on the side of the door.
    This way you can operate the door manually. However, be careful, because if the
    problem lies in the spring of the door, it might fall suddenly on you.

    Check all the loose hardware to make sure that nothing is out of place.

    Also check the springs and see if they are hooked on to the right place.
    If, while carrying out the garage door repair you face any difficulty due to the tension in the springs,
    try to adjust them by hooking them to the next notch.
    This will make it easier for you to work.

    Finally, never forget that the best way to keep your garage door in good condition is by regularly carrying out maintenance work on your door.
    This will ensure that you do not have to spend buckets on repair and replacement works.

  27. Wow that was strange. I just wrote an extremely long comment but after I clicked submit my comment didn’t appear. Grrrr… well I’m not writing all that over again. Anyhow, just wanted to say superb blog!